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This is me, attempting to keep up with all my Second Life backlog. You can find my latest music post here... it's got four mixes up on it, for all the ones that I should've posted for you guys way back when. Don't kill me plz. ~_~
Now for the real reason for this post. Since my brain was totally numbed out but my plot bunnies were still busily fucking each other in my head, I poked![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
kye_kestrel and dreamlessness over y!m in order to make some more KHR-related projections regarding everyone's favorite part of the story: The TYL Arc.
makeste made this really awesome post on the community, and I have to say that her theories and the points raised by a lot of the people in the comments do make a lot of sense to me. Let's set all of that aside, though, and focus on the questions that bug me the most:
Um. Let's take these questions one at a time.
What is Byakuran really after? Has he been plotting since the Varia?
Out of all of the new villains that have been introduced in KHR, Byakuran is the one that srsly boggles me. Unless I pull the shounen manga card on him constantly (i.e. "OH BYAKURAN? HE'S JUST ONE OF THOSE CRAZY SONS OF BITCHES OUT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD AND MAKE LIFE HARD AS A ROCK FOR EVERYONE--"), I can't make any sense out of his actions, and I can't even begin to understand his motivation as a character. One thing's for sure, though: he's out to achieve something that will have a great bearing on the mafiaverse, and he needs the rings and the pacifiers to do it.
Possible Shounen Jump interference aside, it's entirely possible that Amano-sensei has setting things up for the Epic Level since the Varia... let's say that it was Byakuran who orchestrated Xaxnus' early return, which, in turn, triggered the Cervello step in to oversee the ring battles. Since Byakuran is out to get the Vongola Rings, this might have been an ideal step to take, as it could end one of two ways:
1.) Xaxnus and company wins. Byakuran can then have Xaxnus pay up his dues (assuming that he and Xaxnus have an agreement) by taking the rings from him, or Byakuran can simply subjugate Xaxnus' crew while they're still recovering from the battle with the Vongola and take the rings for himself.
2.) Tsuna's company wins. They emerge shaken and a little stronger, but that's part of the collateral damage that Byakuran would expect from this sort of arrangement.
As we know, Scenario #2 happened, thus prompting whatever is going on in the TYL Arc.
Some notes, fromroxiezeke and surskitty: 20YL!Lambo appeared, which could mean that either Byakuran's manhunt for the Vongola was unsuccessful OR that Lambo escaped. I mean, he does have a very telling line in the manga when he sees Tsuna and company -- it's like he sad or nostalgic over something. There is also the possibility that 20YL!Lambo is from an entirely different timeline.
Now let's go back to the question of what Byakuran might be after. You can either view him as the kind of megolomaniac who wants to take over everything just because it's the In Thing with today's villains, or he might have other, ah, "nobler" aspirations. Speculating on the answer to this particular question means dwelling on the next item on our list.
How is all of this time-skipping, mafia cursing mystic shit possible? Exactly how much bearing does it have on the world of KHR?
Quick segue from the discussion: just so you all know, this mystic magic stuff seriously boggles me, but I suppose it can't be helped. It also goes on with that whole theme of mysticism and mystery that you can attribute with the Underworld, I suppose.
ANYWAY. Before we go back to Byakuran, let's dwell a bit on the type of wtfery we've seen throughout KHR. Four things immediately come to mind:
1.) The special kinds of bullets that some families have been toting around, capable of doing funky things to their subjects at the point of death (i.e. Dying Will, and that Longchamp Family bullet whose name I've shamefully forgotten ~_~)
2.) The trippy experiments that were responsible for the Kokuyo.
3.) The Bovino Bazooka, capable of switching its target's present self with his future self. It's a time traveling machine in a weapon.
4.) That super special mystical power that cursed the Arcobaleno, turning back their physical body clock and effectively forcing them to re-live their lives.
That said, I have a proposal to make: What if, to borrow Harry Potter terms, items 3 and 4 actually use the same kind of magic? I raise this possibility because, if you think about it, the whole switcharoo/reverting business is very similar: you either mess around with the spatial aspect of time (i.e. Bazooka) or one's individual, physiological time (i.e. Arcobaleno).
If you think about it, the Arcobaleno could have had it so much worse; while they lost their physical forms and were greatly de-powered in the process, they were fortunate enough to retain their minds and memories. That begs to question, however, if it's possible to calibrate the power that cursed them to obliterate memories as well, to force a complete rewrite of the person's life.
Now that that has been said, let's take this a bit further. Let's say that Byakuran, through Irie, has managed to more-or-less perfect their control over the spatial aspect of time, using the TEH AWESOME WOW DOOMSDAY MACHINE! that we've been catching glimpses of in the manga lately. All that's left now is the individual/physiological aspect of it, but maybe that somehow requires both the rings (maybe for the sheer fact that they aid in drawing out the full potential of an individual or manifesting it into a weapon in which they can fight with?) and the pacifiers of the Arcobaleno (because these cursed babies were touched by the very power that they're trying to harness). Once they have it, however, they can harness the magic as they please.
SEGUE - A possible breakdown offered bykye_kestrel: I think it was mentioned in a recent episode (the one entitled Trinisette?) that the Mare Rings and the Vongola Rings have the best and the purest flames. So if there'd been another set of mafia rings with even higher-grade flames, Byakuran would have gunned for them, to. I'll have to watch it again to be sure, but I think the rings are there as power sources. The pacifiers, on the other hand - all seven of them together, along with their individual curses (and/or hidden abilities, if they exist) may hold the key to that doomsday machine.
Assuming that it IS possible to calibrate the power to completely re-write or override someone's individual time, we suddenly have a valid motivation for Byakuran: whatever his reasons are, he could be out to re-write the mafiaverse (and maybe even the whole world) to his liking. If mind control really IS his special ability, imagine the possibilities: he can brainwash the people who are too valuable to him to reduce, and shrink everyone else.
MAYBE Tsuna's future self found out about this plan and tried to put a stop to it. Since he was too hard to brainwash but too dangerous to keep in captivity until he could otherwise reduce him, Byakuran had him killed.
Sounds fine and dandy, BUT we can't exactly forget the fact that Amano has implied that there are forces and people who are WAY above everyone else in the mafiaverse... we've seen manifestations of this in the Cervello and Vendicare.
Who are the real villains in this scenario? The Cervello and maybe the Vendicare have been crawling around a lot these days.
I dunno, but I remember finding it incredibly suspicious how some masked ladies that look suspiciously like the masked ladies in the Varia arc are following Irie around, assisting him in his research. This could mean that the Cervello, the judicial arm of the KHR mafia world, has a hand in all of these happenings.
Let's assume that nothing goes on without the Cervello approving it. Would that mean that the Vongola are somehow a threat to the status quo that they imagined, and thus, the Cervello are more than happy to let the Millefore bust things up? That still doesn't explain away all these theatrics (they could have disposed of the Vongola Family quietly, for one), but it IS a possibility. How Byakuran fits into this picture is still shady. I say it's one of two things:
1.) He's being manipulating by them also, or he's ALLOWING himself to be manipulated by them because it helps him achieve his own goals.
2.) He has, in one way or another, infiltrated the Cerevllo's ranks and has them under his sway.
Whether it's scenario 1 or 2, it's clear that we'll be hearing more from these bitches in the future, and it's bound to get ugly when we do.
Here's more fromkye_kestrel:
Oh, that bit about the Cervello - you mentioning "status quo" reminded me of what Tsuna said in his trial - he'd rather destroy the Vongola with his own hands than be part of that cycle of violence. Maybe TYL!Tsuna, while being a mafia boss, isn't being a typical mafia boss. Maybe he's actually trying to change the mafia world into something he perceives to be better, and could actually be succeeding (I mean, given the power and the resources, the very name of the family he commands), and the Cervello aren't happy with it. They could have taken the Vongola down quietly, yes, but maybe Tsuna and his family had gotten too strong and influential at that point to just quietly sweep under the rug that easily. And this is were Byakuran and Irie come in - the Cervello and Byakuran could be working together to fulfill their own goals.
...Anyway, that's it for the big, overarching speculations. Now for something smaller.
What are the TYL selves of our boys doing in the past while our kids fight their way through in the future?
I'm of the camp that believes that upon getting switched around, the TYL versions of our Guardians did NOT disappear, and are actually running around in the present, trying to disrupt the Millefore in their own way. This could explain why Hibari and Ryohei were not reverted back -- maybe TYL!Gokudera and TYL!Yamamoto managed to reach them in time.
Of course, this sort of scenario tends to leave us with even more questions. Given the fact that TYL!Gokudera is hell bent on destroying Irie, wouldn't you think that he's doing everything in his power to kill the kid now? What could be stopping him? A possible answer to that is that he and Yamamoto already have their hands full making sure that Ryohei, Hibari and other Vongola-related folks don't get switched around or eliminated while stuff is still going on.
It's also entirely possible that as their TYL selves, they can't really interfere too much with the happenings in the past, as that would, logically, have a direct bearing on the events in the future. Recall that thought experiment regarding time travel (i.e. guy goes back in time to kill his grandfather and ends up blinking out of existence because without his grandfather, he wouldn't exist). They could be overly busy making sure that they don't botch things up.
HERE'S ANOTHER LOOK AT IT, courtesy ofinfringe: We all know how fiercely loyal and devoted Gokudera is, so it's entirely possible that Gokudera's not making any moves BECAUSE he knows that Tsuna wouldn't want him to do that sort of shit. TYL!Yamamoto may have a hand in holding him back too, since they are such so married like that. 805927 action, anyone?
...ANYWAY. *coughs* Add the time paradox mess-up theories, and you may just have our boys from the future waiting it out after all, since yeah, it is pretty cool for to allow the young ones to fix things up and recover where they have failed.
Yet another point on TYL!Gokudera, as quoted fromkye_kestrel below:
Then again, we have no idea what TYL!Gokudera is like. He's fiercely loyal, yes, but what kind of loyalty is it? The kind that would make him choose Tsuna's wishes over Tsuna's life, or would he betray Tsuna's principles to save Tsuna's life? --> Thoughts on this, anyone?
Aaaand that is what's been going on in my head. I hope that some of this made sense, or at least opened up some interesting possibilities. ~_~
EDIT: I'm adding whatever input I get from the comments. I do love to hear more from you guys about this! ♥
Now for the real reason for this post. Since my brain was totally numbed out but my plot bunnies were still busily fucking each other in my head, I poked
kye_kestrel and dreamlessness over y!m in order to make some more KHR-related projections regarding everyone's favorite part of the story: The TYL Arc.makeste made this really awesome post on the community, and I have to say that her theories and the points raised by a lot of the people in the comments do make a lot of sense to me. Let's set all of that aside, though, and focus on the questions that bug me the most:- What is Byakuran really after? Has he been plotting since the Varia?
- How is all of this time-skipping, mafia cursing mystic shit possible? Exactly how much bearing does it have on the world of KHR?
- Who are the real villains in this scenario? The Cervello and maybe the Vendicare have been crawling around a lot these days.
- What are the TYL selves of our boys doing in the past while our kids fight their way through in the future?
Um. Let's take these questions one at a time.
What is Byakuran really after? Has he been plotting since the Varia?
Out of all of the new villains that have been introduced in KHR, Byakuran is the one that srsly boggles me. Unless I pull the shounen manga card on him constantly (i.e. "OH BYAKURAN? HE'S JUST ONE OF THOSE CRAZY SONS OF BITCHES OUT TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD AND MAKE LIFE HARD AS A ROCK FOR EVERYONE--"), I can't make any sense out of his actions, and I can't even begin to understand his motivation as a character. One thing's for sure, though: he's out to achieve something that will have a great bearing on the mafiaverse, and he needs the rings and the pacifiers to do it.
Possible Shounen Jump interference aside, it's entirely possible that Amano-sensei has setting things up for the Epic Level since the Varia... let's say that it was Byakuran who orchestrated Xaxnus' early return, which, in turn, triggered the Cervello step in to oversee the ring battles. Since Byakuran is out to get the Vongola Rings, this might have been an ideal step to take, as it could end one of two ways:
1.) Xaxnus and company wins. Byakuran can then have Xaxnus pay up his dues (assuming that he and Xaxnus have an agreement) by taking the rings from him, or Byakuran can simply subjugate Xaxnus' crew while they're still recovering from the battle with the Vongola and take the rings for himself.
2.) Tsuna's company wins. They emerge shaken and a little stronger, but that's part of the collateral damage that Byakuran would expect from this sort of arrangement.
As we know, Scenario #2 happened, thus prompting whatever is going on in the TYL Arc.
Some notes, from
roxiezeke and surskitty: 20YL!Lambo appeared, which could mean that either Byakuran's manhunt for the Vongola was unsuccessful OR that Lambo escaped. I mean, he does have a very telling line in the manga when he sees Tsuna and company -- it's like he sad or nostalgic over something. There is also the possibility that 20YL!Lambo is from an entirely different timeline.Now let's go back to the question of what Byakuran might be after. You can either view him as the kind of megolomaniac who wants to take over everything just because it's the In Thing with today's villains, or he might have other, ah, "nobler" aspirations. Speculating on the answer to this particular question means dwelling on the next item on our list.
How is all of this time-skipping, mafia cursing mystic shit possible? Exactly how much bearing does it have on the world of KHR?
Quick segue from the discussion: just so you all know, this mystic magic stuff seriously boggles me, but I suppose it can't be helped. It also goes on with that whole theme of mysticism and mystery that you can attribute with the Underworld, I suppose.
ANYWAY. Before we go back to Byakuran, let's dwell a bit on the type of wtfery we've seen throughout KHR. Four things immediately come to mind:
1.) The special kinds of bullets that some families have been toting around, capable of doing funky things to their subjects at the point of death (i.e. Dying Will, and that Longchamp Family bullet whose name I've shamefully forgotten ~_~)
2.) The trippy experiments that were responsible for the Kokuyo.
3.) The Bovino Bazooka, capable of switching its target's present self with his future self. It's a time traveling machine in a weapon.
4.) That super special mystical power that cursed the Arcobaleno, turning back their physical body clock and effectively forcing them to re-live their lives.
That said, I have a proposal to make: What if, to borrow Harry Potter terms, items 3 and 4 actually use the same kind of magic? I raise this possibility because, if you think about it, the whole switcharoo/reverting business is very similar: you either mess around with the spatial aspect of time (i.e. Bazooka) or one's individual, physiological time (i.e. Arcobaleno).
If you think about it, the Arcobaleno could have had it so much worse; while they lost their physical forms and were greatly de-powered in the process, they were fortunate enough to retain their minds and memories. That begs to question, however, if it's possible to calibrate the power that cursed them to obliterate memories as well, to force a complete rewrite of the person's life.
Now that that has been said, let's take this a bit further. Let's say that Byakuran, through Irie, has managed to more-or-less perfect their control over the spatial aspect of time, using the TEH AWESOME WOW DOOMSDAY MACHINE! that we've been catching glimpses of in the manga lately. All that's left now is the individual/physiological aspect of it, but maybe that somehow requires both the rings (maybe for the sheer fact that they aid in drawing out the full potential of an individual or manifesting it into a weapon in which they can fight with?) and the pacifiers of the Arcobaleno (because these cursed babies were touched by the very power that they're trying to harness). Once they have it, however, they can harness the magic as they please.
SEGUE - A possible breakdown offered by
kye_kestrel: I think it was mentioned in a recent episode (the one entitled Trinisette?) that the Mare Rings and the Vongola Rings have the best and the purest flames. So if there'd been another set of mafia rings with even higher-grade flames, Byakuran would have gunned for them, to. I'll have to watch it again to be sure, but I think the rings are there as power sources. The pacifiers, on the other hand - all seven of them together, along with their individual curses (and/or hidden abilities, if they exist) may hold the key to that doomsday machine.Assuming that it IS possible to calibrate the power to completely re-write or override someone's individual time, we suddenly have a valid motivation for Byakuran: whatever his reasons are, he could be out to re-write the mafiaverse (and maybe even the whole world) to his liking. If mind control really IS his special ability, imagine the possibilities: he can brainwash the people who are too valuable to him to reduce, and shrink everyone else.
MAYBE Tsuna's future self found out about this plan and tried to put a stop to it. Since he was too hard to brainwash but too dangerous to keep in captivity until he could otherwise reduce him, Byakuran had him killed.
Sounds fine and dandy, BUT we can't exactly forget the fact that Amano has implied that there are forces and people who are WAY above everyone else in the mafiaverse... we've seen manifestations of this in the Cervello and Vendicare.
Who are the real villains in this scenario? The Cervello and maybe the Vendicare have been crawling around a lot these days.
I dunno, but I remember finding it incredibly suspicious how some masked ladies that look suspiciously like the masked ladies in the Varia arc are following Irie around, assisting him in his research. This could mean that the Cervello, the judicial arm of the KHR mafia world, has a hand in all of these happenings.
Let's assume that nothing goes on without the Cervello approving it. Would that mean that the Vongola are somehow a threat to the status quo that they imagined, and thus, the Cervello are more than happy to let the Millefore bust things up? That still doesn't explain away all these theatrics (they could have disposed of the Vongola Family quietly, for one), but it IS a possibility. How Byakuran fits into this picture is still shady. I say it's one of two things:
1.) He's being manipulating by them also, or he's ALLOWING himself to be manipulated by them because it helps him achieve his own goals.
2.) He has, in one way or another, infiltrated the Cerevllo's ranks and has them under his sway.
Whether it's scenario 1 or 2, it's clear that we'll be hearing more from these bitches in the future, and it's bound to get ugly when we do.
Here's more from
kye_kestrel: Oh, that bit about the Cervello - you mentioning "status quo" reminded me of what Tsuna said in his trial - he'd rather destroy the Vongola with his own hands than be part of that cycle of violence. Maybe TYL!Tsuna, while being a mafia boss, isn't being a typical mafia boss. Maybe he's actually trying to change the mafia world into something he perceives to be better, and could actually be succeeding (I mean, given the power and the resources, the very name of the family he commands), and the Cervello aren't happy with it. They could have taken the Vongola down quietly, yes, but maybe Tsuna and his family had gotten too strong and influential at that point to just quietly sweep under the rug that easily. And this is were Byakuran and Irie come in - the Cervello and Byakuran could be working together to fulfill their own goals.
...Anyway, that's it for the big, overarching speculations. Now for something smaller.
What are the TYL selves of our boys doing in the past while our kids fight their way through in the future?
I'm of the camp that believes that upon getting switched around, the TYL versions of our Guardians did NOT disappear, and are actually running around in the present, trying to disrupt the Millefore in their own way. This could explain why Hibari and Ryohei were not reverted back -- maybe TYL!Gokudera and TYL!Yamamoto managed to reach them in time.
Of course, this sort of scenario tends to leave us with even more questions. Given the fact that TYL!Gokudera is hell bent on destroying Irie, wouldn't you think that he's doing everything in his power to kill the kid now? What could be stopping him? A possible answer to that is that he and Yamamoto already have their hands full making sure that Ryohei, Hibari and other Vongola-related folks don't get switched around or eliminated while stuff is still going on.
It's also entirely possible that as their TYL selves, they can't really interfere too much with the happenings in the past, as that would, logically, have a direct bearing on the events in the future. Recall that thought experiment regarding time travel (i.e. guy goes back in time to kill his grandfather and ends up blinking out of existence because without his grandfather, he wouldn't exist). They could be overly busy making sure that they don't botch things up.
HERE'S ANOTHER LOOK AT IT, courtesy of
infringe: We all know how fiercely loyal and devoted Gokudera is, so it's entirely possible that Gokudera's not making any moves BECAUSE he knows that Tsuna wouldn't want him to do that sort of shit. TYL!Yamamoto may have a hand in holding him back too...ANYWAY. *coughs* Add the time paradox mess-up theories, and you may just have our boys from the future waiting it out after all, since yeah, it is pretty cool for to allow the young ones to fix things up and recover where they have failed.
Yet another point on TYL!Gokudera, as quoted from
kye_kestrel below: Then again, we have no idea what TYL!Gokudera is like. He's fiercely loyal, yes, but what kind of loyalty is it? The kind that would make him choose Tsuna's wishes over Tsuna's life, or would he betray Tsuna's principles to save Tsuna's life? --> Thoughts on this, anyone?
Aaaand that is what's been going on in my head. I hope that some of this made sense, or at least opened up some interesting possibilities. ~_~
EDIT: I'm adding whatever input I get from the comments. I do love to hear more from you guys about this! ♥
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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I do not know why but I am hoping Amano sensei gives us a little more to go on. Like Byakuran and Tsuna love. Because it interests me how interested he is in Tsuna of the past as if he knew. He is behind it. I know it is for the rings but still, still hoping :D
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Yeah, same here! I'm working along the premise that it's Byakuran and company, but one can never be too sure, given all the twists and turns in the story. :0
I'm eagerly awaiting more input myself. This arc is ripe with possibilities, but right now, there are way too many questions than there are answers!
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What I really want to know is why the hell is Irie such a bastard? Were we given a reason yet as to why some timid kid with Reborn related nightmares turns into a homicidal-mafioso-genius?
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I'VE BEEN WONDERING THE SAME THING TOO. I mean, even WITH the stuff that happened to him in his first chapter, you'd think that he's a bit... excessive, with all this Vongola-hating? Maybe there's more to this story too!
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I REALLY HOPE SO! XD I mean, it'd be sort of funny if it turns out that his family went bankrupt to pay for his therapy sessions due to his many nightmares and thus he felt a need to extract revenge or something, but I mean, really.
Byakuran seems most likely to be responsible. Didn't TYL!Gokudera say something about stopping Byakuran from meeting Shouichi when Tsuna first got in the TYL-era? akjl;a Can't remember.
Ugh, so many questions! I hope they get answered soon!
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...I love you for bringing up that possibility. ♥
I AM DEAD AND DYING UNDER ALL THIS SPECULATION TOO. Answers plz, kthnx.
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I think what it boils down to is, Tsuna wouldn't have wanted that sort of thing ( 'cause he's Tsuna & everything )? Plus there's also the fact that, yes, Irie's set up to be the CAUSE of why everything is going wrong, but -- TYL!Gokudera didn't write that letter to his past self just so he could fix everything in the past. It's so his past self knows what they gotta do to bring everything back to normal?
I mean, like, consider that whole MESS WITH THE PAST & YOU FUCK UP THE FUTURE age-old saying? I think TYL!Gokudera would be smart enough to realize they can't really tamper with what happened. Plus, it's kinda cool to have the past fix the future, right? Idk, man, haha. It's twelve midnight & this prolly didn't make any sense at all. D8 But -- yes, Tsuna wouldn't have wanted him to do that, plus there's his past self in the future fixing everything along with everyone else who's over there, etc., etc. SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
I'm not really sure, haha.
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I think what it boils down to is, Tsuna wouldn't have wanted that sort of thing ( 'cause he's Tsuna & everything )?
Ah yeah, that's so true. Given the way Tsuna is now and the canon hints at just how fiercely loyal Gokudera is, only something like that would keep him from doing anything drastic. THEN there's the time paradox stuff to consider. Gokudera's not a genius for nothing after all~
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...I'm also hoping to see TYL!Dino, damn it. ~__~
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Then again, we have no idea what TYL!Gokudera is like. He's fiercely loyal, yes, but what kind of loyalty is it? The kind that would make him choose Tsuna's wishes over Tsuna's life, or would he betray Tsuna's principles to save Tsuna's life?
Irie being a bastard:
He probably has his reasons. But I've been wondering - Irie in the anime seems... I dunno, like he's scared of Byakuran. There's some kind of emotion driving him that's not purely hatred for the Vongola. And no, I'm not talking about the gay side of it. XD If you watch his interactions with Byakuran, and then his scenes in the manga, he sounds almost desperate. Like he has to succeed with the ring retrieval operations no matter what.
My take on this is, it's mostly Byakuran. The takeovers, the plans, the Trinisette gathering - it's all him. But he wouldn't have been able to pull the time traveling bit without Irie. And as I'd said, Irie has his reasons, but he's not the driving force behind things. He only provided the means to that end - not that it's his only role, of course. Byakuran seems more than happy to make use of his genius and his drive.
On the question of the pacifiers and the rings:
I think it was mentioned in a recent episode (the one entitled Trinisette?) that the Mare Rings and the Vongola Rings have the best and the purest flames. So if there'd been another set of mafia rings with even higher-grade flames, Byakuran would have gunned for them, to. I'll have to watch it again to be sure, but I think the rings are there as power sources. The pacifiers, on the other hand - all seven of them together, along with their individual curses (and/or hidden abilities, if they exist) may hold the key to that doomsday machine.
Oh, that bit about the Cervello - you mentioning "status quo" reminded me of what Tsuna said in his trial - he'd rather destroy the Vongola with his own hands than be part of that cycle of violence. Maybe TYL!Tsuna, while being a mafia boss, isn't being a typical mafia boss. Maybe he's actually trying to change the mafia world into something he perceives to be better, and could actually be succeeding (I mean, given the power and the resources, the very name of the family he commands), and the Cervello aren't happy with it. They could have taken the Vongola down quietly, yes, but maybe Tsuna and his family had gotten too strong and influential at that point to just quietly sweep under the rug that easily. And this is were Byakuran and Irie come in - the Cervello and Byakuran could be working together to fulfill their own goals.
Since he was too hard to brainwash but too dangerous to keep in captivity until he could otherwise reduce him, Byakuran had him killed.
- I love how you phrased this. It makes TYL!Tsuna's death easier to swallow, somehow. Like he wasn't killed just because of the Vongola hunt, or because some snot-nosed kid hated his guts.
Aaaand I still think that TYL!Yamamoto and TYL!Gokudera are training Hibari and Ryohei in the past. Just in case - like, they can't be vigilant all the time, and the kids can still be sent to the future while their backs are turned. And because if they stay at their current level, Tsuna and Gokudera and Yamamoto will be severely overpowered when they go back to the past after everything's over.
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Then again, we have no idea what TYL!Gokudera is like. He's fiercely loyal, yes, but what kind of loyalty is it? The kind that would make him choose Tsuna's wishes over Tsuna's life, or would he betray Tsuna's principles to save Tsuna's life?
...That's an interesting proposal.
I'll be c&ping your bits to this post, to flesh things out a little better. I hope you don't mind~ ♥
Overpowered? That's an interesting point too. XD
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... And speculating about what kind of loyalty TYL!Gokudera would have towards Tsuna is giving me a headache. +_+ I honestly can't decide.
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Maybe Byakuran can already partially rewire people, since that would certainly explain Uni's sudden personality switch. Assuming you can do that if you only have some powerful rings/that he already had those rings when Uni showed up. At the very least, he's capable of some kind of mindfuckery.
And if that's what happened to Uni, maybe its a good thing Tsuna died before Byakuran got to him. >>;;;
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Yeah, a lot of people seem to believe that he's capable of doing that. It's a scary power to have, IMHO. o_o
And if that's what happened to Uni, maybe its a good thing Tsuna died before Byakuran got to him. >>;;;
YES, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU THERE. D:
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It could be totally possible that they began to use it already. Not a the full power, (if I follow your theorie) but it could already change your personnality.
My proof is (...LOL, saying that make me think of a bad TV-show XD) the personnality changement of Gamma's princess (what's her name? I forget it *shame*). She looks so kind before meet Byakuran. But after, Gamma noticed a changement.
Think that "power" isn't strong enough to change Tsuna, a reason for Byakuran to shoot him down, maybe?
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Think that "power" isn't strong enough to change Tsuna, a reason for Byakuran to shoot him down, maybe?
Interesting possibility. Maybe it has something to do with the Sky Flame?
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Yeah, I didn't think of it ._.
And the Arcabaleno's nipple could have something to do with too.
So the machine (Or whatever you want to call it) don't work on the Arcabaleno and Tsuna because of the nipples and the Sky ring.
But Byakuran absolutely need those (for fullfilling his dream, conquer the world, blablabla) so the only way he can took them is to kill their holder.
Then, what's the hidden power of the Sky ring and the Arcabaleno's nipples? (I say ring and not flame because Byakuran is a flame type too, isn't he? I don't remember well)
Oh, It could be a reason for Lal Mirch to survive so long, her nipple isn't "complete".
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I actually don't know or remember what flame attribute Byakuran has, or if he even has one. o_o I should ask.
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But, what I got was what I was wondering too.
I think why Irie killed Tsuna was because of that time when they first met.
And perhaps that the TYL!Selves went to find Irie?
They should do a scene switch into the past so we can know what's going on. *nods*
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Question: It the TYL!selves are in the past, shouldn't that mean that Tsuna's corpse landed pretty much right on top of Lambo? It could be argued that the situation is different since Tsuna was dead, but even just the body was enough to 'guide' Tsuna into the coffin, so it should have worked the other way around as well? Which leads me to think that they're *not* actually around.
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But yes, that's a good point -- I was wondering about that too, but I figure that Amano glosses it over wherein if the person's dead, they simply disappear. That is, if you follow the logic of the bazooka. Which doesn't have much logic.
ANYWAY. *goes off to plot that corpse fic*
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No, the bazooka doesn't have much logic. And making something that was born as a random crack weapon the basis for an entire arc is dangerous and brain-breaking.
BUT WHY AM I THEORIZING ON THIS ANYWAY. *facepalms*
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ABOUT HIM SUCKING. :3From:
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Yeah, that's probably going to happen, knowing the way shounen manga is. @ Cervello becoming the main enemy. I mean, we still have that whole issue of the Arcobaleno, which hasn't been touched upon properly yet.
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But Cervello could be behind the whole Arcobaleno thing too...like they have some random research facility in the middle of some rocky mountain or something...from that flashback....
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Here's hoping that we see another arc for that in the future?
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And word on the street is that (SPOILER) in chapter 202 it's revealed that Shouichi's big white machine is actually A TIME MACHINE!1, so that makes this theory sound all the more plausible. With something like that, taking over/ruling the world would be staggeringly easy. D:
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However, I agree on the Cervello thing. They're either going to turn out to be the omgmosteviloftheevil!!1, and there's going to be EPIC teamwork. Personally, I think they're manipulating the whole thing.
Or if we went the crack! way, this whole thing is something Reborn cooked up to "make them stronger."
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Or if we went the crack! way, this whole thing is something Reborn cooked up to "make them stronger." --> That is going to make me chuck something. Really hard. B|
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What's been bugging me is TYL!Gokudera's line to Tsuna when he said "If only that guy didn't exist, Byakuran wouldn't be like this." I would've thought that Irie became the way he is because of Byakuran and not the other way around. But then like you said about Byakuran controlling space time and all that thanks to Irie, I think that it was because of Irie's research that probably helped Byakuran become as powerful as he is now and the reason Byakuran is going after the Vongola.
(Sorry, this probably isn't answering your questions... XP)
Personally, I'd like to think that TYL!Gokudera and TYL!Yamamoto are enjoying the peace of the past and taking that time to 'make babies'. Heheheh. Right now there's a bunch of future people in the past right? I wonder how Tsuna's mom is taking it... ^__^ And I can so see Yamamoto going to visit his dad or something. Hmm... but seriously, I think
I so need to see TYL!Dino like NOW.
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And yeah, the whole Irie/Byakuran/Irie thing is really strange. Most of us seem to think that Byakuran's the one who corrupted Irie, but it could also be the other way around. It would be interesting if it was the other way around, IMHO.
Making babies. O lulz. AND GODDAMNIT, YES, TYL!DINO PLZ COME
and have smex with TYL!HibariRIGHT NOW.